Madonna – 20 years ago when she was top the world

                                             September 2002   By Philip Berk

Madonna’s new movie is a remake of the Italian classic Swept Away by A Cruel Destiny in the Blue Sea of August.

Its new title is Swept Away.

Directed by her husband, trendy Brit Guy Ritchie, you might say that she herself has been swept away by a cruel destiny, but at her press conference in Los Angeles she gives no indication of that.

To hear her tell it, theirs is a total collaboration of marriage, art, and parenting.

And for good measure, she’s also working on self improvement by destroying her ego.

For over twenty years now  Madonna has been an international icon.

In the eighties, she singlehandedly turned underwear into outer wear and rewrote the rules of sexual identity.

In the nineties, she was Madonna music star, then Madonna movie star, and finally Madonna mom.

The birth of her daughter Lourdes was the showbiz event of l996.

But then Carlos Leon, the father of her child, was displaced by Guy Ritchie, the handsome director of Lock, Stock, and Two Smoking Barrels, who was ten years her junior.

Before the birth of their son,  they were married in a formal ceremony in Scotland.

Now they’re working together in the grand tradition of star Ingrid Bergman and director Roberto Rosellini. 

That Italian collaboration fifty years ago was Stromboli.

Madonna and Guy’s is Swept Away

Both were and are unmitigated disasters.

But at the Four Seasons Hotel in Beverly Hills, Madonna doesn’t see it that way. In fact she seems delighted with the results.

Following the press conference, the film opened to scathing reviews in the U.S, even worse than the ones she got from the London critics for Up for Grabs a play she recently closed in the West End.

But then Madonna has never been one to look back in anger.

In person she’s jaunty, high spirited, and at 44 she still looks great.

When asked if she’s worried about aging and losing her beauty, she replies, “Haven’t they just figured out the whole thing about regenerating stem cells. If you can re-grow organs and stuff, surely you could regenerate your skin and  turn back the aging process. I’m no authority on it,  but things are happening today in medicine and science that twenty five years ago would never have been imagined.” 

Obviously, the material girl is alive and well.

But now she has a more important mission in life —  to use her celebrity to save the world.

“As much as I think I’ve inspired people in the world with my pursuits,” she tells me, “I’d like to be more involved with bringing about world peace. I know that sounds pretentious but it’s the truth.”

Could she be more specific?

“Well just to give you a for instance. Do you know what’s going on with nuclear waste in the world? How do we solve this problem? I could write the greatest songs, make the most fabulous film, be a fashion icon, and conquer the world, but if there is isn’t a world to conquer, what’s the point. So I have come to a place in my life where I would like to be more involved  in making the world a better place.”

Should celebrities get involved in politics?

“I think it’s a public figure’s responsibility to not just raise public awareness  but to offer solutions to problems and to be very involved. I also believe I have a responsibility to enlighten people on a spiritual level as well. The big problem that occurs in our society today is that we all think of ourselves separately. We say I’m black, I’m white, I’m rich, I’m poor, I’m famous, I’m not famous, I’m Jewish, I’m Catholic. I’m this, I’m that. At the end of the day it’s all bullshit. We are all one, and when we start thinking that way we’ll stop killing each other. So it’s my job to raise awareness and consciousness about that subject.”

And coyly she adds. “I’m sure you weren’t expecting that answer.”  

Ironically her version of Swept Away omits all the political overtones of the original?

Who’s idea was that?

“It was my husband’s decision. He wasn’t interested in the endless arguments about communism vs. capitalism. He wanted to make it a love story.”

And she agreed with him?

“I jumped at the opportunity of working with him.”

Did they establish boundaries before they started working together?

“We really were clear about that, and in fact because we were married, we had a shorthand with each other. He didn’t have to kind of beat around the bush with me. If you don’t know people you’re working with, there’s a kind of song and dance routine, but not with Guy. We worked together on the script discussing my character so that by the time I was on the set I knew what he wanted, and he knew what I wanted. We both had the same vision. And it made things easier because we were married. There were a few times when I was irritated with him as my husband, but I knew better than to bring it to the set. I had to leave that at home. We were not going to have arguments about his throwing his socks on the floor.”

So it was all good?

“It was good for me because I am one of those people who whenever there’s a problem, it has to be solved then and there. I have to have it my way, I have to get it done in the heat of the moment which is not always the most productive time. So I’ve learned restraint and  by letting it go and not discussing it for the rest of the day, it goes away; so it was good for me.” 

For the past few  years she has been a student of Kaballah, the mystic branch of Judaism, attending classes both in Los Angeles and London.

When asked about it, she insists it’s not a religion.

“It predates organized religion, it’s 6000 years old.”

Why was she drawn to it?

“I have been studying for six and a half years — I’ve studied Buddhism and a lot of Eastern thought and having been raised as a Catholic I have investigated Christianity as well, but this was the only thing that gave me answers and tools and let me understand what the big picture is, so it’s improved my life immensely.”

And obviously Guy’s as well, since the two of them have collaborated on five children’s books, all adapted from the Kabbalah.

How did that come about?

“One of the reasons we decided to write these books — I don’t know if you’ve noticed but most children’s book are so devoid of meaning. I found myself reading these books to my daughter and they were about absolutely nothing. Why am I reading this! So I’ve systematically gone and thrown out all the Barbie books. What bothered me was there were no lessons in them, no kind of guidance; so we decided we would write books that we would want to read to our kids. I used our daughter as a guinea pig and we took turns reading them to her,  and the places where she got tired, we knew we’d have to fix them up a bit.”

What are they about?

“One of then is about the power of evil, another is about the certainty that things  we perceive of as bad can become blessings in our life. One story is about giving. One story is about taking negative traits and turning them into something positive. One of the stories is about jealousy and envy. All of them  have really good messages, and I had a great time writing them.”

Their age difference — Guy is ten years younger than her — are there any advantages?

“I don’t think it gives you an advantage if you’re older than someone. In any relationship what matters is that you have things in common. You could be older and have an incredible physical attraction towards somebody, but if you’re not on the same level or if you don’t share the same vision of life, there is no advantage.”

Her daughter Lourdes is six and her son Rocco is two. Would she have preferred another girl?

“I like having a boy. I think I’m in love with my son. Having both kids is a good balance. My daughter is becoming more like a sister and my son hopefully will be my boyfriend forever.”

She plays a fencing instructor in the new James Bond movie. How did that come about?

“They had approached me to write the song ages ago and I kept turning it down, but they were very persistent and finally I thought, Well I’ll give it a go. I’ll try to write a song. The film’s title was Die Another Day, so we had to write a song with that title, and I liked the concept of destroying your ego because ultimately in my mind destroying your ego is the great liberator. And then when I handed them the song, the director said it would be cool if I could do a cameo, and once again I said no, I don’t want to do cameos. But the people at MGM are very persuasive, and I did it. It was only one day’s work and I had a lot of fun working with Pierce.”

How hard is it for Madonna to destroy her ego?

“Well it’s very hard when you’re Madonna, but, you know what, it’s very hard for everybody because when you really break it down you realize that most of the decisions each and every one of us makes is for egotistical reason.  My motivation to do what I wanted to do when I was younger was ego. Everything you do is motivated by ego, and it’s a huge waste of time because it stops you from caring about what really matters. So yes I’m on a mission to chip way at my gigantic ego, and I urge everyone to join me.”

And how will she accomplish that?

“Well for instance, if my husband and I are having an argument, because of your ego you want to win. You have to be right for no particular reason. It’s such a waste of time and energy. So if you can be more aware of it, it liberates you from feeling a lot of negative things you don’t need to feel.”

The two of them spend most of their time in England.

Is there anything about living in London she doesn’t like?

“I did feel a bit trapped for a  while because I couldn’t drive on the other side of the road, but I finally bought myself a mini and taught myself how to drive a stick shift. So I feel very liberated now that I can drive myself around London.”

Is she concerned about aging?

“I definitely think about it, but age is a part of life. There’s nothing I can do about it. The philosophy of yoga teaches you disassociate yourself from material things such as the illusion of beauty.  But it’s a great struggle not to be attached to those things.” 

What does she think of  plastic surgery?

“I’ve seen some excellent plastic surgery and some not so excellent. People are sometimes overly critical of their bodies and faces. It’s too bad we can’t learn to be more accepting. I’ve seen people fix their noses and I’ve thought, God I loved their nose the way it was. I like faces that have character. But having said that, I think a woman (or a man) should have the right to do whatever she wants to her face. Whatever makes you feel good, but I truly believe that beauty starts from the inside. If you’re only working on the outside, I don’t think you’re ever going to be happy.”

What has she learned from her success?

“That you can follow your dreams, and if you apply yourself, you can get better. Also if you want something bad enough you will have it. I always felt that the part of Evita, if it was meant to be mine, it would be mine. And that’s how I felt through all its incarnations when people like Michelle Pfeiffer and Meryl Streep were cast in the role.”

Was it always her dream to become a star?

“I don’t know. I grew up with this longing to be somewhere else, to make something great out of my life, but I never knew specifically what that was.”