Clint Eastwood 1995 and seven years later

By Philip Berk
Arriving for his press conference at the Beverly Hilton Hotel, dressed in his customary gray tweeds, Clint Eastwood looks just the man to sweep Meryl Streep off her feet.
In Bridges of Madison County, he plays a drifter and she a frustrated housewife, whose four day love affair becomes an experience “that will haunt them forever.”
Clint may be approaching 65, but right now he’s at the top of his game.
His laconic answers could make anybody’s day. When you ask him a question him, he listens, reflects, and then gives you everything.
Well almost everything. When asked about his messy lawsuit with (former companion) Sondra Locke, he dismissed it with the non sequitur of the year: “As the great Jimmy Durante used to say, Everybody wants to get into the act!”
If Sharon were there, she’d say, “What’s that supposed to mean?”
I remember her telling me, five years ago, just after he had the locks changed at the mansion they shared for twelve years and her belongings put into storage, “How could I have allowed this man to become the most important thing in my life, how could I have surrended my own individuality?”
Shortly thereafter, Sharon dropped her palimony suit against him and accepted a three year production deal at Warner Bros.
But now, it’s become apparent that the studio never had any intention of making good on the deal — whatever Warner Bros. invested in her was charged against profits from Unforgiven — so Sondra is back in court charging fraud and adding Clint to the lawsuit.
Clint’s reputation as a maverick may have endeared him to the British Film Institute, but it hasn’t done much for his personal life.
After 25 years of marriage, he left his first and only wife Maggie for Sondra, who at the time was still married to her childhood sweetheart. During their long association, the suit claims, he forced her to have two abortions. That idyllic relationship ended when he met Frances Fisher, the mother of his two year old daughter.
Maggie, his first wife, got $25 million in the divorce settlement even though she was not the mother his oldest child, a daughter born during the marriage to actress Roxanne Tunis. They later had two children, Kyle, 37, and Alison, 33.
Personal relationships have not been Clint’s specialty.
Molding a career, staying on top, and earning respect, has.
Bridges of Madison County, is a case in point. It’s breaking records at the box office and getting the kind of reviews reserved for great artists.
When I remind him that Meryl Streep chose to do the film because she had heard about his economy as a film maker, he is both flattered and amused.
“I know I’ve gained this reputation for doing one or two takes, which sometimes is the case and sometimes isn’t, but I’m not sure it’s a good reputation to have in an industry of excess. It’s not always looked upon with great admiration. However I like working fast because it gives me the feeling I’m going somewhere, and I like the spontaneity. And I’ve been fortunate to work with actors who enjoy that.”
Harrison Ford once said, “Perfection is not a righteous goal.” Does he agree?
“It’s a very good comment, because it’s true in a way. Sometimes if you antisepticize things, after twenty takes, you beat it to death. Pretty soon it loses its rhythm, its spontaneity. The scene might be technically great, the actors technically perfect, everything enunciated perfect, the shadow is perfect, lighting, everything. But ultimately you see the sterility of it all.
“I like a more spontaneous response, and Meryl Streep happened to enjoy that. She loved the spontaneity. A lot of the time, actors and actresses are accused of being technical, but that’s because they’re burned out by the time they get to Print. I like mistakes, I like real-life feeling. Dialogue doesn’t always have to be perfect. People stutter and stammer. They fight for words. If you can get that on screen, then there’s a certain real life feeling. Really good performers, like Gene Hackman and Morgan Freeman, are not afraid to do that because they have confidence in themselves. Towards the end, Meryl asked if we could shoot the rehearsals.”
Why did he choose Meryl for the role?
“Well, she’s the best. She’s as good as it gets. There are some wonderful actresses in this world, but I don’t know any that are better than she. And when you have somebody as strong as her you have a very powerful situation. Without saying much, you can read a lot in her face. In the original script, there was a scene where she opened the gifts, things that were willed to her, and she read his letter. You were supposed to hear his voice, but she did it so splendidly, so simply, I removed it. Even the movements with her hands, her gestures, were so perfect, why contaminate them with dialogue.”
Actors have complained that he doesn’t give much direction. Is that how he works?
“It depends on the actor. If he’s totally off base on the interpretation, you try to guide him, but in the case of Meryl — because we were shooting in continuity — we started out as in real life, barely knowing each other and just sort of building a relationship. As the director, I did tell her a couple of times, ‘Just because I don’t come in and say wonderful, fabulous and use a lot of flamboyancy, doesn’t mean I don’t think it’s good. If it’s no good, I won’t print it.’
“We talked a little about where we were going with it before we started, but then it just started to unravel. There’s nothing worse than a director who, because he’s self-conscious or insecure, gives a lot of instruction. That’s very unnerving to actors. I’ve been on that side of the fence so I know. I don’t care for it myself, so I don’t perpetrate it on others. I try to maintain a comfortable atmosphere. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it. But when things are going wrong you jump in and talk about it. ‘Let’s try something different.’”
What, as an example, did they talk about?
“We talked about the love aspect and the relationship and the friendship aspect, the loneliness, she being an outsider and he a drifter.”
What, in his opinion, is the movie saying?
“It’s about two people who meet. They haven’t much to do. He has to wait until tomorrow to start things, but then pretty soon one things lead to another, which is the way life is. That’s the way it’s been in my life. Nobody really starts out to make friends with anybody. It just sort of happens over a period of time. Nobody sets out to fall in love necessarily.”
As a director, does he ever storyboard (meticulously plan a scene)?
“No, I’m spontaneous. No storyboards. I’ve only done it once, and that was for a sequence when we had to work with special effects.”
What inspired him to make a woman’s picture?
“I don’t think it’s gender driven. I know when I showed a rough cut to Steven Spielberg, he said it made him want to go home and hug his wife, and I said, ‘That’s wonderful.’ There’s a lot of complacency in relationships and a lot of difficulty; maybe this will call people’s attention to it.”
How did he get involved in the project?
“Warner Bros.had purchased the book for Steven’s company. They had put it out to (director) Sydney Pollack and asked me if I’d be interested in acting in it. I read the book and I liked it. One thing led to another, and I ended up acting and directing.”
Wasn’t Coppola once offered Unforgiven?
“He may have been, but I had bought the property in ‘81 and saved it for many years because I just wanted to stockpile.”
Does he enjoy both acting and directing?
“It’s something you develop a thing for. It started out in 1970, because the only way I could get the job as director was to be in it. Over the years I’ve worked out a style or a method whereby I switch backwards and forwards. How it’s done, I don’t know. But a lot of people have done it quite well. I don’t know if there’s any great secret to it.”
Does he ever feel he might be shortchanging himself by doing both?
“No, I don’t. As director, I’m interested in the overall picture. I’m not interested in what I’m doing as an actor. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link. It’s very important for the director to pay attention to the detail and to the overall project.”
Any fear that his fans won’t accept him in a sensitive role?
“For me, it’s just another role. I had no trepidation. I kind of looked forward to doing it. As for my so called ‘macho’ image, I never wanted any particular image. I never coveted it. I’ve never wanted to wield guns and chase down criminals on the streets of San Francisco. I’m just an actor. I play each role for what it is.
“I’ve played similar (sensitive) roles in Beguiled, Bronco Billy and Honky Tonk Man. Some of them worked out, some of them didn’t. This one seems to be working out, so I accept it, but I won’t get too analytical about it,”
Is there any significance that his two year old daughter is named Francesca, Streep’s name in the movie?
“It’s just a coincidence. The name came before I was involved in the picture.”
Is being a father in mid-life especially rewarding?
“Being a father is fun anytime, but when you’re a little older, a little more mature, you have a little more time to spend because you’re not so career driven, so there are advantages, but there are disadvantages too.”
What does he think of laws (such as in Italy) that prohibit women from having children late in life?
“I don’t think anybody should be prevented from doing what he or she wants. If a woman is able to have a child late in life, more power to her.”
As a libertarian, how does he respond to Senator Dole’s criticism of Hollywood’s preoccupation with sex and violence?
“Senator Dole is welcome to his opinion, and maybe he’s genuinely concerned, but there are a lot more important problems in the country that need to be addressed first. I don’t know what makes him an expert on the subject. Maybe it’s political posturing. He takes a good point and then makes political hay out of it. Some of it,I think, is because President Clinton has become the darling of the Hollywood community so he has to take an adversarial position.”
What does he plan to do next?
“I have no idea of what I’m going to do next. I don’t really have a long-range plan. People get sort of astounded when I tell them that. The only thing I believe is there’s no benefit in repeating myself, either for my audience or for me.”
Sergio Leone, the Italian director, used to joke that, “Clint had only two expressions, with or without the hat?” What are his memories of him?
“At that particular time, 25 years ago, we were attempting an innovative style; at least a lot of people thought it a new interpretation of the western genre. That was fun. But after four movies, I knew I had to move on to other roles. Sergio and I talked about doing other pictures, but to me they were a little repetitive. I’ve done sequels myself, but I’ve always tried at some point to do something different. Sergio was a wonderful talent, I learned a lot from him, I learned from other directors, over the years. It was a great moment, and it was a great era of my life.”
Does he have any political ambitions?
“None at all. I never was politically ambitious. I ran for mayor of Carmel because of my interest in the community where I live. But as far as running for office, no chance. Knowing how people scrutinize your life, I’d be committing gaffe after gaffe.”
And what advice would he give to aspiring actors?
“The first actor of note I ever met was Cornel Wilde. And he said, ‘So you want to be an actor? Well, save your money.’ When I asked him what that meant, he answered, ‘If I’d saved my money, I wouldn’t have done some of the roles I had to, to make ends meet.’ I’ve always remembered that, and I’d have to pass that along. That way you can be independent, wait for things you think are suitable.
“Another piece of advice I’d give, is be open-minded and learn as much as you can. If you have ambition to do more than act, then by all means go ahead. One of the problems with acting is, an awful lot of people want to do it, so you really have to love it. If you don’t, don’t do it, because there’s too much disappointment. There will be a lot of rejection along the way. Of course, there’s a lot of luck involved. I mean, if I hadn’t been at the right place at the right time, I might never have got Rawhide.”
Seven years later
He’s Hollywood’s most resilient star.
The one superstar who rarely takes a misstep. And even when he does he bounces back with renewed vigor.
Of course we’re talking about Clint Eastwood.
His latest film is Blood Work, in which he plays a cop needing a heart transplant.
It’s his tough-guy way of saying he’s getting old.
But the public isn’t buying into it.
The film has been a commercial failure even though critics were impressed.
So how is he bouncing back this time?
By staying behind the camera directing Sean Penn in Mystic River which started shooting last week.
When I interviewed him, Blood Work hadn’t opened yet.
My first question to him ironically was, Does he make movies with one eye on the box-office and the other on satisfying critics who consider him a major artist?
His response as always was laconic and deferential.
“It’s very nice of the British Film Institute to give you an evening tribute, but the main thing I’m trying to do is tell a story. You don’t put the cart before the horse. You don’t think about how someone is going to react to a certain scene. If you did, every scene would be tailored towards an audience’s reaction, and then you’d get yourself in trouble. What you do is go straight to the story and ask yourself is it something I’d like to see even if somebody else was performing in it? In the case of Blood Work I got the galleys even before the book came out. I talked to the author, and then I told Warner Bros. I like this book and I would like to do it, and they were supportive. But they didn’t participate too much in the making.”
How important is it that Warner Bros. show a profit on their investment?
“They are very nice as far as supporting me as an independent producer, but I can’t worry about that. You have no control over whether they make money or not. And you can’t prejudge it, certainly not in the world we live in. Besides, once the film is done you have nothing to do with it.”
A surprising admission coming from the ultimate Hollywood maverick.
For over 40 years now Clint has stayed on top by reinventing himself.
Not just his career, but his personal life as well.
Career-wise he went from a tv western series (Rawhide) to spaghetti western classics (Sergio Leone,) from achieving iconic status as Dirty Harry to playing straight-man to a chimpanzee (Every Which Way But Loose.)
As a director he earned the respect of the British Film Institute (Outlaw Josie Wales) twenty years before Hollywood gave him his two Oscars (for Unforgiven.)
His private life has been equally unpredictable.
After 25 years of marriage, he left his first wife Maggie for Sondra Locke.That relationship ended when he fathered children with (air line stewardess) Jacelyn Reeves and (actress) Frances Fisher.
A messy lawsuit made headlines but ultimately was settled out of court.
His first wife had accepted $25 million in her divorce settlement even though she was not the mother of his oldest child, a daughter born to actress Roxanne Tunis, four years before their two children were born.
Eight years ago he met a young tv news anchor Dina Ruiz. They were married shortly before the birth of their daughter, and they have been ever since.
In spite of all these complications, his ex wives, ex lovers (with the exception of Locke) his seven children, and one grandchild, all dote on him.
Which tells you a lot about the man.
Whether you respect him or not, you’ve got to love him.
And obviously he’s someone who loves women.
What are the qualities he finds most attractive in women in general and his wife in particular?
Deflecting the question he replies, “I grew up in an era when women were the driving force in films. Back in the forties, actresses (like Bette Davis, Barbara Stanwyck, and Joan Crawford) played roles that were equally as strong as men. I liked that era a lot. I have great nostalgia for it. As far as my marriage, it is about the happiest time in my life right now. She is a tremendous person and she has to embrace a lot of different elements in my life from the past, and she has done it so gracefully. I am a great admirer of hers obviously.”
What kind of fun do they share, despite the (35 year) age difference?
“Well she keeps me on my toes, let’s put it that way. We both enjoy family a lot, we both enjoy pets. We love to play golf. There are a lot of things we do together as a family.”
Over the years he has opened his heart to many women. Hearts have been broken. Are those days over?
“Everybody has had their up times and down times. I guess there is no one who is exempt from that. What you do is take the experience and learn from it, and try to not make the same mistake again. Be a little more selective.”
Does he enjoy his extended family?
“I try to spend time with all of them which is why I’m not making as many movies anymore. We’re a great family; we come from a lot of different directions, but everybody loves each other and that is the greatest enjoyment I could possibly have.”
Does he feel vulnerable when around family?
“I don’t know if I feel vulnerable. I feel happy around them. I love children anyway. I find their honesty, curiosity fascinating, and I love to watch them grow and see what they are going to become.”
Is being a father in mid-life especially rewarding?
“Being a father is fun anytime, but when you’re a little older, a little more mature, you have a little more time to spend because you’re not so career driven. I’ve sort of had to learn patience that I didn’t have when I was more ambitious. I now do less but I try to do what I do properly.”
As one of the few actors whose wrinkles make him attractive, what does he think of plastic surgery?
“It is somewhat disconcerting if you don’t recognize them. It’s hard to say, ‘Didn’t you used to be so and so?’ But I guess everybody has to do what they feel is necessary, whatever their ego demands, I guess. It’s too late for me, the horse has left the barn.”
Was that his choice, to age gracefully on screen?
“As an actor you have two philosophies; one is that you’re afraid to let go of what you once were, or you are not afraid. I have no other choice; they don’t make enough shoe polish for my hair, and they don’t have a belt sander for my face. At some point you have to say, ‘This is who I am, and this is an opportunity to play roles I couldn’t play thirty or forty years ago.’ You have to view it as an opportunity and not worry about it. But if your ego can’t let go of your matinee idol image, you’re in trouble. I fortunately never considered myself a matinee idol. I always thought of myself as a character actor even when people viewed me as a leading man.”
How does he see the industry? Is it changing for the better?
“There’s an awful lot of razzle dazzle out there, so much fantastic technology. Sometimes you wonder if the toys are running the factory.”
Does he ever look at his old movies?
“I never revisit any of my work. I haven’t seen any pictures that I made in the 80’s or 90’s. I ran Dirty Harry once about a year ago because Dina had never seen it and all the men in the news room kept telling her how she’s got to see it if you’re married to him. So we watched it on dvd, and she said, ‘Oh I get it now.’ That’s the only film I revisited. Except I did see Play Misty for Me. They had a thirtieth anniversary a year or so ago, and I kinda had to sit through it with the audience. It was interesting seeing myself with big sideburns, a lot more hair, dark hair. I’ve got a little blonder since then. And wearing those horrible bell bottom pants.”
Since l993 he hasn’t appeared in any film he himself hasn’t directed. Is that his choice?
“It started in 1970 when the only way I could get the job as director was to be in a film. My original ambition was to phase out of acting and just direct. When the day comes and you look up on the screen and say, ‘That’s enough of that guy’ I guess it will happen. Sometimes that day gets closer all the time.”
Sergio Leone, the Italian director, used to joke that, “Clint had only two expressions, with or without the hat?” What are his memories of him?
“At that particular time, 35 years ago, we were attempting an innovative style; at least a lot of people thought it a new interpretation of the western genre. That was fun. But after four movies, I knew I had to move on to other roles. Sergio and I talked about doing other pictures, but to me they were a little repetitive. I’ve done sequels myself, but I’ve always tried at some point to do something different. Sergio was a wonderful talent, I learned a lot from him. It was a great moment, and it was a great era of my life.”
Does he have any political ambitions?
“None at all. I never was politically ambitious. I ran for mayor of Carmel because of my interest in the community where I live. But as far as running for office, no chance. Knowing how people scrutinize your life, I’d be committing gaffe after gaffe.”
And what advice would he give to aspiring actors?
“The first actor of note I ever met was Cornel Wilde. And he said, ‘So you want to